Okay, boys, lots of comments about our article last week on taking apart your single set-trigger in your old Winchester.  Several wrote to say it was easy getting them apart . . . but now what do you do?   Yep, you can take out the screws, punch out the pins and shake all the parts in a pile.  But we hope you don't.  If you need to disassemble . . . do it step-by-step taking care you remember the order of removal and the position of each part.

        Next week we'll show you how to put it back together again.  This week, we are dealing with the troubles you might find with your set-trigger.

Here is the absolute, #1 problem with single set-triggers (and double sets, too):  someone who didn't have a clue what they were doing has tried to repair it in the past.  Most fouled up set-triggers we see have been filed on, ground down, replaced with incorrect parts, and generally messed up by previous owners.  Not you, of course.  You would never do that. 

          If a trigger mechanism has been untouched, in factory condition . . . the repairs can be quite simple.  But, most gun collectors (and many gunsmiths) are quite confident they can fix everything.  And most are slow to admit they are wrong.

Time to review all the parts in a single set-trigger.  Keep these parts in mind.

                                       #1 spring screw

                             #2 sear kickoff catch spring

                                   #3 sear kick off spring

#4 kickoff catch pin

#5 kickoff catch

#6 sear spring

#7 trigger pin

#8 trigger

#9 kickoff

#10 sear

#11 kickoff spring rest pin

From our perspective, here are 12 areas where you can find problems with you single set-trigger.

1.  You have a broken, or missing adjustment screw. 

This is that tiny little jobber right above the arc of the trigger finger that you can set the tension with.  If it is missing, or if enough is left of the stem, you can screw it out, and replace it with a new one.  You can buy one from Jim (jgrueter@q.com) for $7.  Where you buy your parts is totally up to you.

However, about 7 out of 10 times, we've found the broken screw cannot be removed.  In this case, you need a new trigger.  Not just any trigger . . . but a set-trigger.  This can cost you anywhere from $100 to $300 depending on condition and how lucky you might be.  (If you are looking for old Winchester parts and can't find them anywhere else, you can do like we do and check with Albert Buckingham in Tennessee at 731-559-4169. 

          Or you can have the trigger rebuilt (see below).

     Good triggger                                                      Broken shank on the trigger

2.  You have a broken trigger.

       The threaded walls around that little adjustment screw aren't very thick.  Sometimes a person will have a stuck screw and get a larger tool to "force" it to move.  What they do is break the end of the shank off the trigger right at the screw hole.

          In that case you need to buy a new trigger (see above) OR . . . have your present one rebuilt.  If you have broken screw that can't removed, or a broken trigger, the shank can be cut off before the screw hole, steel welded on . . . then machined down the exact original size and the hole drilled and threaded.  Of course, not too many people have the shop tools . . . or the experience to accomplish this.  Maybe you do.  If not, Jim can repair a broken-set trigger for around $50.  Of course, some are so messed up they are unrepairable.

3.  One out of every 15-20 set-triggers we see has the springs stacked wrong.

As we mentioned, previous human error is the most common problem.  You know how to stack them because you carefully disassembled them with last week's Gun Tips.  But here's a review:  The bottom spring is the sear spring, the middle spring is the kickoff spring, and the top spring is the catch hook spring.  There is only 1 hole . . . and 1 screw that holds them down.  They get mis-stacked because people forget the order, and it's easier to stack them in an incorrect order.   If they are stacked wrong, it will never work.  It's a good place to check.

4.  You might have a broken spring. 

Any of these could be broken and there is no way to repair them.  What you need to do is find a new one.  You might find one on-line . . . or at a gun show . . . or from Buckingham.  Maybe you have the skill and tools to make your own.  That's great.  Jim does make these springs from time to time, and you might catch him in a good mood and he'll build you one.  When he has them, the sear spring goes for $15, the kickoff spring for $30, and the catch hook spring for $12.

5.  A 5^th problem we find is that the sear does not make contact with the hammer.

The sear is too short, broken or altered in some way.  Again, someone who didn't know what they are doing, filed, ground, hammered, sawed on it thinking they were going to fix the set-trigger.  All you can do is get a new sear.  Buckingham charges about $60-$75 for one.  But maybe your gun collecting pal will have one he'll sell you for $20.  Good for you.  If the sear has been altered, you have to find a new one.

6. The hammer half-cock is broken.

Okay, this is not a problem strictly for set-trigger hammers.  All guns can have this problem.  But it is more common with set-triggers because that half-cock notch is less than one-half the width of a regular hammer.  When this is broken the set-trigger can still work, but you don't have any safety on the gun.

All you can do is buy a new set-trigger hammer (which can be up to $300).

Or you can find someone to take yours, weld on the metal, then machine it back to the original shape.  (see below)

7.  The full cock hammer notch has be tampered with or altered.

          It seems to be a favorite place for people to file on and try to adjust their set trigger.  Once this notch is messed with, it is useless.  You'll need to buy a new hammer (see above).  Perhaps you can find an original for sale on line, but always ask yourself . . . if this hammer is so great . . . why was it pulled off a gun and sold?  Many on-line ones have problems.

          Ah, yes . . . as you might guess, there is an alternative if either of the notches has been ruined.  Get someone to add metal, then machine them back to their original shape.  Yep, Jim can do this too.  If you need one notch in the hammer rebuilt, it will be about $30 . . . both notches will run you around $50.  (Jim's phone number?  208-924-5037 but remember it's Pacific Time out here.)

       8.  Another problem is found when the kickoff spring rest pin is not in the correct position, or has been replaced with one not having a flat.

       Remember from last week, this is a little pin that has a flat ground down on one side.  That flat goes DOWN.  Some put the flat up.  Some never see the flat at all.  Some replace the pin with a nail.  None of that works.  The kickoff spring rest pin must have a flat and it must be down.  If you can't find one anywhere else, Jim might have one to sell for $10.

                       Notice two types of hammers and kickoffs.

          9.  The kickoff, itself, has been altered.

       Again, it's human error (or incompetence).  The set-trigger doesn't work and someone started filing or grinding at either or both ends of the kickoff.  Remember there are two types of kickoffs.  One for early hammers, and one for later.  Make sure your get the right one that suit the hammer, and the fly.  If yours is damaged, you need a new one.  Buckingham sells kickoffs for around $50.

          10.  They have a broken or mal-functioning fly (sear over-ride).

          The fly is that tiny piece that kicks in to over-ride the half-cock when the set-trigger is engaged.  It's often called the sear over-ride.  They sometimes break.  They are the target, at times, of misguided repairs.  Often you need a new one.  Remember there are two types of flys.  The early one is an external one.  You can replace it yourself.  If you find one at a show or from some dealer buy it.  OR, of course, you can buy one that is precise to factory specs from Jim for $20.

          However the later guns have an internal fly.  Sometimes people buy the wrong one for their gun.  To get this one rebuilt, you'd have to send the entire lower tang with hammer to Jim, and he's fix you up for about $50.

                                notice how little of the catch hook actually overlaps

          11.  The catch hook is worn.

       This is such a delicate place in the set-trigger mechanism.  The catch hook latches the kickoff with only a tiny overlap.  If they've been messed with, filed or broken your set-trigger will not work.  You can probably buy a catch hook in the $30-$40 range.  As we said, a kickoff will be more like $50.

          12.  As long as you have the whole lower tang and hammer disassembled, you can check out the stirrup as well.

       From time to time people will have trouble with the stirrup and want to replace it.  They sometime forget that a set-trigger stirrup is different that a regular one.

          Now, that is not every problem you might encounter.  We've found some so full of rust, dirt and gunk that all they needed was a good cleaning.  And, of course, you might have some unique problem never-before heard of in the annals of Winchester gun collecting.  (Lucky you!)

          We're hoping this helps you in the repair of your single set-trigger.  For others, it might scare you away from ever attempting a fix.  You might need to, like many others, pulled out the lower tang assembly and hammer, then send it to Jim and ask if it can be salvaged (and what it will cost).

          Just in case you are wondering if we're tryin' to drum up business for Jim, the answer is no.  If you can get this fixed somewhere else . . . do it.  The old German is so busy now, he doesn't have enough time to play enough golf with me as it is.  BUT . . . just in case you need his help or his parts . . . jgrueter@q.com or Jim at 208-924-5037 (Pacific Time).

          And, please, please, please don't call me (Steve) about set-trigger problems.  I can show you how to lay a flop shot over a deep sandtrap and stick it stony to the pin . . . but set-triggers are way beyond me.

       In the snowy mountains of northcentral Idaho,  

                                                             Steve & Jim

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